Hello. Please excuse me if I made some spelling mistakes, I'm upset. I am 42 and have had my 3rd unexplained miscarriage. Doctors keep saying it's common for this to happen to me at my age, which I understand to a certain point. I live in Italy and wonder how thorough they are in their testing sometimes. For the first time testing was done on the fetus after the D&C. The tests came back normal, but since it was female (when it's male it's 100% accurate), there could be possible maternal cell contamination. A doctor friend in the USA told me the lab can compare fetal tissue to my blood chromosomes to make sure the correct cells were analyzed, but as usual here this seems to be too difficult and they said it's too late. Has anyone ever had a similar problem like this?... If the test results were 100% accurate I would know it doesn't have to do with egg quality (therefore chromosomes)and could be someting else...although I have had many fertility tests done (hormones, hysteroscopy,infections etc.) and no serious problems came back. I hope this eamil doesn't sound confusing. Any advice or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
help! - accuracy of cytogenetic test result after miscarriage(9 posts) (5 voices)
Hi lis, I've just found your post. I am sorry that noone has replied to you sooner. I posted something similar to you today. I believe we were together on the July intensive teleconference for Europeans? I am also 42 and am recovering from our 5th miscarriage. I just had cytogenetic testing done too and it has come back 100% normal (missed miscarriage at 6 wks but waited for expectant m/c at 11 wks). I am now waiting for the full cytogenetic report, I don't know yet whether the baby was male or female but the doctor said on the phone the lab was certain all was normal with the chromosomes. He also told me this is a common finding.
I think that there are many unknowns still regarding the process and miracle of pregnancy and I think that sometimes these come into play and we are left not knowing why our baby (with normal healthy chromosomes) died. Like you I also have had lots of tests and nothing has been found. I have had miscarriage blood work done a second time recently and I get the results next Wednesday. I will post here again then and regarding the cytogenetic report. Julia mentioned getting my husband's sperm tested for E Coli but no one seems to have even heard of this in the medical community in the UK which is frustrating. Have you checked this out?
I hope you get this post and I would love to hear from you how you are getting on now and whether you have discovered anything you can share?
Hi lis, I just realised that it was insensitive of me to tell you that we have had our fifth miscarriage. I want to share with you that Mr Raj Rai who is one of the most respected recurrent miscarriage specialists in the world (partner to Professor Leslie Regan at St Mary's Hospital, London) told me that he would not expect me, at 42, to have 5 m/c's in a row - he would have expected one of the pregnancies to have been full term and healthy. He said that of course what's happened is possible but he would not expect 5 in a row. He advised me, as he understands it, to be positive about our next pregnancy. He says probability wise we have a good chance of a healthy pregnancy. Just wanted to pass that on. x
Hi lis, me again, just checking in. I hope you are okay.
Well I had my appointment with Mr Raj Rai today and here is the news...
The last pregnancy was a girl (46XX) and it has been explained to me that the test could have been contaminated with my blood. I have decided it was normal :)
Something came up in my blood test resulrs. One of the tests shows I have too much thrombin in my blood. Mr Rai explained that thrombin is involved in clotting but is importantly also involved in cell signalling and cell death (apoptosis). When you have too much thrombin as I do this causes the early placenta cells to die prematurely before they can be replaced by new cells which in turn doesn't allow the placenta to establish itself properly and hence the embryo sadly dies. The proposed solution is for me to take 150 mg of aspirin per day from when I next get a positive pregnancy test. It has also been recommended that I have a further blood test a few weeks into the next pregnancy to check thrombin levels and also to have an early echo scan to check the blood flow and corpus luteum status.
I am surprised because I didn't think he would find anything. I am so thankful that I was referred to see Mr Raj Rai at St Mary's, London. A previous doctor found nothing but didn't do this particular thrombin test.
Mr Rai did advise me that only people who need aspirin should ever take it in pregnancy - he said that if you take aspirin without really needing it you will have a 20% higher risk of miscarriage and this is now clinically proven.
Lis, have you had your thrombin tested?
Very sorry to hear the sad news of another miscarriage amongst us. I am hoping as much as possible that things are getting a bit better each day.
I just wanted to let you know that after the recent European teleconference we did get my husband's sperm tested for Ecoli at the Lister through Yau Thum. No questions asked, it was very easy, not too expensive and the results took a couple of weeks. Sorry not to be more specific but it was done at the time of a lot of other tests so all got lumped together a bit!
Best of luck with your next steps.
Hello T and Charlotte,
Thank you for the kind words and information. I just read your posts. I appreciate your concern and believe all will go well for all of us, but emotionally I feel very tired. I have been away from the forum for a little. T, I am glad to hear that your doctor found something. I will be going to a miscarriage specialist also and your news is encouraging, although I have already done the thrombin test, but maybe I haven't had another one done. Do you have any children? We should keep in touch due to our similar situations. Miscarriages at this age can be so hard especially without children.
There are so many things to remember to say when you go to a doctor (what tests to ask for, particulars about your situation...). I know we should we not listen to our orphans in reference to age and I feel I'm getting better at that slowly, but I have to be honest if I were younger I would take a break form this whole thing for a few years and give attention to it when I was ready. I can't do that now, but I am definitely trying to approach this in a more serene manner. Please keep me posted on your situations girls.......Have either of heard of FertilityCare NaPro the Creighton Model?
Hi Lis, I would love to keep in touch with you. I am going to join the 10th September Teleconference and it would be lovely if you can also join up? I don't have any children yet. My husband and I feel ready to start trying again and I feel very thankful that I saw the doctor that I needed to see. Now that I am part of the Fertile Heart community I do feel more relaxed about trying again and accepting that it may not happen on the first go :) This is despite the fact that I still cry now and then and am struggling a little with close friends/family who are soon expecting or have just given birth. Especially those who were preganant at that same time as me. The FH tools help a lot. I like you would have taken more of a break if I were in my 30s. 3 to 6 months probably. I have heard of the Creighton Model. I think it is very similar to Toni Weschler's 'Taking charge or your fertility' which I have found incredibly helpful for timing baby dancing.
Hi Charlotte, that's great you go the Ecoli test done. We got different advice. The consultant I saw at St Mary's Hospital has the adamant opinion that you cannot successfully culture dormant Ecoli from a vaginal fluid or sperm sample (he says it would disappear before you could get a positive reading) and so you would have to take a tissue sample of your uterus, for example, to get a reliable result. He said that urologists have to do this to corroborate dormant infections they suspect may be in the patient's urethra ie take a tissue sample of the bladder wall for analysis. He says of course if the Ecoli were active it would should up in the culture but you would be so ill you would know about it ie be hospitalised. Did your doctor have anything to say about the Ecoli test?
I wanted to check in with everybody and say hello. Thanks for sharing the very useful info about thrombin and e-coli. I went back to my doctor yesterday and asked about both of these tests. Apparently my husbands sperm has been tested for e-coli but we will redo the test as we are going to try an natural IUI this month without meds. I asked him about thrombin because I had seen on my test results that I had been tested for prothrombin and I mentioned your findings T. Apparently in France the norm is to check the prothrombin , but he agreed to send me for a thrombin test also.
I am really looking forward to nexts weeks teleconference, I have hit a very 'dry' patch in my general outlook recently. I have been feeling stuck and that change only happens to other people. I know that this is orphan rooted but I can't quite work my way through it for the moment. I seem to wallowing in it and then feeling guilty about wallowing but not being able to move either. Does this make sense to any of you?
Love to all and hope to hear your voices next week
Just wanted to say that I can very much relate to your situation. Long and short, after many years they found I had a blocked uterus, and have since miscarried twice(through IVF). I'm also 42 with no children. My gynae sent the foetus for analysis (and it was fine). He then said he wants me to test for prothrombin, but as it is rare I probably don't have it. As it turns out I do, and this he says could have resulted in the miscarriages. He's advised to take a low dosage aspirin every day, so we'll see how that goes and during pregnancy will need to inject Clexane daily for the period of the pregnancy.
Katherine71 - it felt like you were talking about me when you mentioned your 'dry' patch in your general outlook. I can also identify with it being orphan rooted, yet difficult to move through, so yes makes perfect sense to me. I find it difficult to see past the age thing at times and just surrender to the process. I feel like I'm going to miss out if I don't actively do something to move this process along, so sometimes feel like I'm being irresponsible and I do get very sad.
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